Curse

IninefingersI · Nov 05, 2009, 04:13 PM // 16:13

At the apex of Guild Wars popularity, Anet had constructed one of the best, and most comprehensive PvP formats of any MMO going. There have always been malcontents, but there was something for everyone. From the instant gratification of RA, to the highly structured and orchestrated GvG and HA with TA, HB and AB in between.

Along the way, through a number of seemingly nonsensical decisions and inconsistent administrative practices, every PvP format in the game has degraded to near ruin.

My question … are the decisions actually nonsensical, or is the game being degraded on purpose? They knew before they axed TA and HB that RA syncing was going to be a deal breaker. Does anyone actually believe they couldn’t do anything about it other than mix districts? If you do, you’re crazy. They just didn’t want to. You think they couldn’t do anything to make CA less cumbersome? BS!

When they were still making expansions and people were buying games, Anet touted the Free2Play format as a huge success. They said they would continue to support it as long as people played it. Now, nobody is buying games, they are losing money. I think the degradation of the game is actually their exit strategy. Try and nurse people on a dry teat long enough to get out the cash cow of GW2. It’s very frustrating.

Moonlit Azure · Nov 05, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Your being really over dramatic, but you have a point, sort of.

Anet just doesn't feel the obligation to bring the same quality of gaming that they did previously now that GW2 is in the works.

axe · Nov 05, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I often wondered about this myself, but to me its more of a timing thing. Why would they ruin the game too soon, as they did in the case of HA, they basically ruined it when they implemented 6v6.... that would be TOO early in my opinion to start getting people to leave.

I want to believe they are trying to get people to leave, but I dont think its the case.

I just dont believe that they would spend money to lose money, in that it took some resources to ruin PvP.

Also I remember how excited they were that 6v6 was here to stay, they were also pretty jazzed about this PvP "Love" update lol.

When all is said and done, its the players that are ruining PvP

Sweets to the Sweet · Nov 05, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I think the addition of titles contributed the most to the degradation of pvp. All pvp formats now have a title to 'grind' so it is no longer about tactics and playing to win, its about who can farm the most title points the fastest. This is why Tombs/HA was so degenerate for so long. It simply took the addition of titiles to GvG, TA, etc. to lead to the demise of the rest.

On the other hand without titles many players have no incenetive to continue playing the specific formats. I don't think there is a correct answer at this point.

Killed u man · Nov 05, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

I think it's definatly a posibility that Anet is trying to exit out of GW by ruining their own game. Note, posibility tough, because I don't see WHY they would want to do it.

They spent resources on the updates that put GW in that downwards spiral, so as said before, they SPEND money to save money.

On top of that, I'm sure a major company such as Anet (NCSoft) must have realized the pro's and cons of doing such a thing:

*Pros:
-They save money on server costs

*Cons:
-They need to spend money on these "ruining" updates. -Less than they gain from reduced servers obviously-
-They give themselves a bad reputation, not because they ruin their game, but because people now believe Anet is incapable of managing a PvP game. (And hence, a large part of the community won't buy GW2)
-People quit to other MMO's, and won't return for GW2 . (Partially point 2)

So, I really don't see why Anet would want to screw themselves for GW2. It's already become blatantly obvious that a really large part of the -ex- GW community will NOT buy GW2, simply because they lost all faith in Anet.

I think it's more the generally accepted "Anet simply doesn't know how to keep their game fun" arguement which is believed to be the reason why updates suck. (or sucked anyways, they have been doing better lately, but too little, too late)

HigherMinion · Nov 05, 2009, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweets to the Sweet

I think the addition of titles contributed the most to the degradation of pvp. All pvp formats now have a title to 'grind' so it is no longer about tactics and playing to win, its about who can farm the most title points the fastest. This is why Tombs/HA was so degenerate for so long. It simply took the addition of titiles to GvG, TA, etc. to lead to the demise of the rest.

On the other hand without titles many players have no incenetive to continue playing the specific formats. I don't think there is a correct answer at this point.

I think it's sad how many people are simply playing improperly now and ruining the fun for the rest of us. Do these people who farm/leech still recieve gratification when reaching the maximum title in their Gladiator rank?

Personally I enjoy every kill, and enjoy re-killing when they're resurrected. I also enjoy dying, and laugh at how it's done. Learn and carry on playing as a team!

Warvic · Nov 05, 2009, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Your being really over dramatic, but you have a point, sort of.

Anet just doesn't feel the obligation to bring the same quality of gaming that they did previously now that GW2 is in the works.

I think they do enough..

Most people paid about 140 euros in total for all the games. and how much hours did they play these games? there are people with more then 4000 hours!!!!!!!

And now think about other games, the adventure games for example. 60 euros and you play it for like 20 hours (completed)

And no with those games you won't get balances every 2 month and FREE updates!!!

Sometimes im wondering if it hurts Anet when people are complaining coz there is no update. It would hurt me kinda if i were a developer (i think) and i would stop making updates

it's not that we pay for it..

soz bout fail english

I Angra I · Nov 05, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

ANet originally made GW with it being a competitive game in mind, to be played in tournaments and such like Counterstrike and Starcraft. Once released, the PvE market was so much bigger that they decided they would make more money catering to that, rather than pursuing it as a competitive game.

The two biggest faults that killed competitive GvG were lack of tournament support by Anet (no more world championships, automated tournaments that they don't have to be involved with), and the extreme difficulty for 3rd parties to organize tournaments/ladder/leagues because of the way obs mode, the servers, etc. were structured and made everything so proprietary and difficult to watch and broadcast. No spectator slots, no replays, not able to view games in general besides 15 minutes after the fact on obs mode (which is frequently bugged).

I don't think they're intentionally trying to deaden the game in preparation for GW2 though, they just realized that they will have the most success with GW2 by keeping the PvE market happy above all else.

Kaon · Nov 05, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

First of all i'm going to have to say that players are apparantly more interested in PvE than PvP. I don't know why.

In any case PvP was professionally killed off at release by forcing players to unlock an insane amount of skills through pve. Half the competitive beta community never actually played the game after release anymore. The apex of guild wars was actually beta because back then there was much more interest in pvp. Even at the height of post release pvp only a very, very small fraction of guild wars players (1-5%) played pvp.

Imagine if it was the other way around. Do pvp to unlock stuff in pve. Amazing.

Kenzo Skunk · Nov 05, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by IninefingersI

At the apex of Guild Wars popularity, Anet had constructed one of the best, and most comprehensive PvP formats of any MMO going.

It`s still the best to my knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IninefingersI

Along the way, through a number of seemingly nonsensical decisions and inconsistent administrative practices, every PvP format in the game has degraded to near ruin.

Wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IninefingersI

Now, nobody is buying games, they are losing money. I think the degradation of the game is actually their exit strategy.

Wrong again. Stop spelling doom pls.

bungusmaximus · Nov 05, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Jeeeez, be pessimistic much? A game is made by it's players, they killed TA because noone played it (I did so I QQ'ed, but meh). I think GW is still one of the best PvP games I ever played. AB doesn't get stuck on the same map because anet did so, it's because Luxon players win more often. HA is full of idiots, again, that's not anets fault. RA got the dishonourable hex, making it actually playable for someone that has a spare 15 minutes on his hands. Dunno about GvG, I don't touch that, but meh...

Skyy High · Nov 05, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by IninefingersI

My question … are the decisions actually nonsensical, or is the game being degraded on purpose? They knew before they axed TA and HB that RA syncing was going to be a deal breaker. Does anyone actually believe they couldn’t do anything about it other than mix districts? If you do, you’re crazy. They just didn’t want to.

And what, pray tell, do you suggest, that wouldn't end up simply being an inconvenience to everyone who plays RA?

Talk about nonsensical...

IninefingersI · Nov 05, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And what, pray tell, do you suggest, that wouldn't end up simply being an inconvenience to everyone who plays RA?

Talk about nonsensical...

HAHA, an inconvenience to people who play RA? WTF do you think sync teams are? Losing to a guild sync after 14 flawless is awful 'inconvenient'.

Sound like a syncer to me.

Bobby2 · Nov 05, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by IninefingersI

There have always been malcontents, but there was something for everyone. From the instant gratification of RA, to the highly structured and orchestrated GvG and HA with TA, HB and AB in between.

Along the way, through a number of seemingly nonsensical decisions and inconsistent administrative practices, every PvP format in the game has degraded to near ruin.

Hey! AB is still quite gimmickless

Del · Nov 05, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

First of all i'm going to have to say that players are apparantly more interested in PvE than PvP. I don't know why.

Because many people can't take losing, or the shit talking that comes with pvp. so they stick to pve where they always win, and the ai doesn't verbally abuse them.

IninefingersI · Nov 05, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apathetic Tom

Because many people can't take losing, or the shit talking that comes with pvp. so they stick to pve where they always win, and the ai doesn't verbally abuse them.

Verbal abuse in PvP? Thats crazy talk.

Olim Chill · Nov 05, 2009, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

so they stick to pve where they always win, and the ai doesn't verbally abuse them.

Hey, some NPCs can be pretty snippy...and you can't ever teach them some manners.

Wuhy · Nov 05, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweets to the Sweet

I think the addition of titles contributed the most to the degradation of pvp. All pvp formats now have a title to 'grind' so it is no longer about tactics and playing to win, its about who can farm the most title points the fastest. This is why Tombs/HA was so degenerate for so long. It simply took the addition of titiles to GvG, TA, etc. to lead to the demise of the rest.

On the other hand without titles many players have no incenetive to continue playing the specific formats. I don't think there is a correct answer at this point.

everyone should be gvging.. thats the point of the game after all.... its called guild wars for a fkken reason... and the other arenas would be fun-to-do things just to pass time, like you have 4 ppl in your gvg guild online, go do some TA or something.. not in the mood? go AB! you just wanna get some quick matches? go RA... but not to fill up some retarded purple bar to increase your e-peen... that is true, titles degenerated pvp, then nightfall broke it.

prey monkie · Nov 05, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

u got defintly a point with the whole anet losing money cuz basicly most gw players play a decent game for free till GW2 comes out. on the other side i might b wrong about this cuz i havent read a lot about it. isnt it also anets own fault for letting GW bleed to death now? it should b normal that now GW2 comes out, so we can all do that? but no we have to w8 2 more years? and play aion instead? RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO that. i hope that a lot of parents buy GW for their "12 year old kid who told their parents about runescape once" stand in a warehouse looking for a gift and see GW no monthly fee's and buy it. so anet gets some money in their pockets and give GW a few more updates + fix the servers please cuz me and my dutch friends 007 always togheter. which is obviously crap. FACE!

DreamWind · Nov 05, 2009, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by IninefingersI

My question … are the decisions actually nonsensical, or is the game being degraded on purpose?

Fair question. I honestly think it is a little of both. I think in the beginning (and for most of Guild War's life) the decisions for PvP were absolutely nonsensical to the point of being ridiculous and often hilarious. I can't even begin to count the number of times Anet attempted to fix an obvious problem only to:

A. Not actually fix the problem (or ignore the problem outright)
B. Make the problem worse
C. Create a new problem that is usually worse than the previous one

This has been what PvP has gone through for several years. As great as the PvP engine in Guild Wars is and as great as PvP used to be, nothing can take that amount of abuse and have its community stay with it.

Quite honestly I have come to the conclusion that Anet is incompetent when it comes to balancing, running, and maintaining a competitive game. I know this is true just from all the built up evidence. I have ZERO hope of a good competitive game in GW2...which leads to me second point.

The PvP game IMO has been downgraded somewhat on purpose since the introduction of GW2 and since Anet's realization that the PvE community is their new bread and butter. Anet now obviously knows that they are going to have to cater to the PvE players (specifically casuals and farmers) to survive, so intentionally or not (and whether people dispute it or not), PvP has received even less time in favor of making the majority happy.

I think Anet now WANTS the majority of players to be PvE farmers, because in all likelihood that is the game they are going to be unrolling with 2. It would be a bad idea for them to hype up the PvP (has anybody noticed there hasn't been much detail of PvP at all in GW2 outside of "world PvP") when they know that the majority of the people buying the game aren't going to playing it much AND because they know the screwups they made with PvP in GW1 have all but decimated any PvP playerbase and caused feelings of resentment towards the company.

In conclusion, to answer your question...yes.